Love your MY Series Wagon Haircut !
Old subaru's deserve more credit than they get....
Here's my previous Liberty parked up at Double Island Point,

Knot Board, Great subi I have an 07 Forester as well love to do those mods,

I have taken my old 2000 forester up to double island and inskip point onto Frazer years ago. I did have a 2 inch lift and tow points all around my car. I had BFG all terrians and a good air compressor.

I took some Max tracks and a good snatch strap. I did not overload the car. Just me and 2 mates.

I had no problems at all, some guys even commented that they said the roads where some of the worse they have seen. I just drove around carefully kept up my speed and waited for the tides.

I have passed the car on but I am itching to do another.

They can also be pretty extreme...

another style of salty subaru, my first pride and joy !

Wow, what a classic collectible brumby (or brats as they were called in the US market) !

Those Americans can get away with a lot more modifications than we can here in QLD. Subi's fall into the MA Category under the Australian Design Rules so I can do a 50mm suspension lift or a 50mm body lift but not both like you can with a class MC offroad vehicle. That said, you can generally push the boundaries a little as a lifted subi doesn't look as ridiculous as a Hilux with 8 inch suspension lift and 35 inch super swampers.

best car ever, (apart from the rust), locally we had this 1600 ute and the 1600 station wagon.
front of the car was different from the aussie brumby.

You could either buy them in yellow or yellow.

Knot Board, I forgot to ask you said you have installed a "centre locking diff" does it stop the wheels spinning like a lock hub does?

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knot board said..
Wow, what a classic collectible brumby (or brats as they were called in the US market) !

Those Americans can get away with a lot more modifications than we can here in QLD. Subi's fall into the MA Category under the Australian Design Rules so I can do a 50mm suspension lift or a 50mm body lift but not both like you can with a class MC offroad vehicle. That said, you can generally push the boundaries a little as a lifted subi doesn't look as ridiculous as a Hilux with 8 inch suspension lift and 35 inch super swampers.

Never understood why you would want to "lift" a vehicle. Do you really get hung up on obstacles that often? The compromise in cornering and braking is fundamental. (These vehicles are often also driven on public roads !!)

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Ian K said..

knot board said..
Wow, what a classic collectible brumby (or brats as they were called in the US market) !

Those Americans can get away with a lot more modifications than we can here in QLD. Subi's fall into the MA Category under the Australian Design Rules so I can do a 50mm suspension lift or a 50mm body lift but not both like you can with a class MC offroad vehicle. That said, you can generally push the boundaries a little as a lifted subi doesn't look as ridiculous as a Hilux with 8 inch suspension lift and 35 inch super swampers.

Never understood why you would want to "lift" a vehicle. Do you really get hung up on obstacles that often? The compromise in cornering and braking is fundamental. (These vehicles are often also driven on public roads !!)

You are completely correct there are no practical advantages in lifting a 4x4. In fact we only do it to obscure the vision of car drivers at intersections and parking lots.

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HappyG said..
Knot Board, I forgot to ask you said you have installed a "centre locking diff" does it stop the wheels spinning like a lock hub does?

Hi HappyG,

I will try my best to explain. Hub locks don't stop wheels spinning, hub locks connect the wheel to the axel in part time 4x4 vehicles. Diff locks stop wheels 'spinning' relative to the other wheel on the same axel by locking the left and right axels together. I don’t have front or rear diff locks, they just aren't commercially available for Subaru diffs as there's not a big market for the kits. My subi is full time AWD so all of its wheels are always connected and driven. The ratio of torque between the front and rear is variable but I have a switch which locks the front to the rear. I have a Limited Slip Diff in the rear but these aren't really effective for off-roading as you can still spin one wheel. Even the best 'real' 4x4's still are only effectively 2x4 unless they have diff locks installed front and rear.

Have to be careful with this topic as it can easily turn into a AWD vs 4WD debate which is not the intention.

Cheers.

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knot board said..

Hi HappyG,

Even the best 'real' 4x4's still are only effectively 2x4 unless they have diff locks installed front and rear.

Only rarely will a 4X4 be only as effective as a 2wd.



The diff equalises the torque to each of its 2 output shafts. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential(mechanical_device)

If both front wheels are on ice but the back wheels on bitumen, no torque goes to the back axle of a 3 diff 4wd. The rwd 2wd wins for a metre or two.

If both left wheels are in ice and the right wheels on bitumen no torque goes to the right wheels. Both 4wd and 2wd have no traction.



If all wheels have about 1/4 unit of traction in even, slippery mud, the 4wd has 1 unit of traction and goes, the 2wd only has half a unit and doesn't go.


A diagonal crossing where 2 diagonal wheels lose traction is OK in a 4wd with front and rear diff locks, but in this case just a centre diff lock is no help.

A 2wd with a locking diff should outperform a 4wd with no diff locks in such a diagonal unweighting case.

Diff locks or limited slip diffs avoid these scenarios by not being limited by the weakest link.

Diffs locks aren't really necessary these days, they'll soon be completely phased out. With computerised ABS the spinning wheel(s) can be individually braked sending torque to the best axle or wheel. Not quite as efficient energy wise to do it this way when traction is varying all over the place, but a lot simpler if you've got all the ABS sensors there anyway.



The Falcon RTV ute had a locking back axle and could famously embarrass 4wds with open diffs. It's about all you need really, plenty of ground clearance. Cheap to run, where else do you want to go? Pity they dropped them from the line up. The Territory 2wd has a similar system. We mistakenly rented a 2wd Territory for work once in sandy country. It was fine. Do you reckon I could tell the non-mechanically minded to crawl underneath and convince themselves it was only 2wd.

I knew this would happen

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knot board said..
I knew this would happen

Well we couldn't just leave that outrageous statement of yours hanging out there without being challenged could we now.

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knot board said...

Even the best 'real' 4x4's still are only effectively 2x4 unless they have diff locks installed front and rear.

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Ian K said..

Only rarely will a 4X4 be only as effective as a 2wd.

Cool, but if you insist on calling my claims outrageous at least quote them correctly.

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knot board said..

knot board said...

Even the best 'real' 4x4's still are only effectively 2x4 unless they have diff locks installed front and rear.

Ian K said..

Only rarely will a 4X4 be only as effective as a 2wd.

Cool, but if you insist on calling my claims outrageous at least quote them correctly.

It wasn't a quote , it was a correction of your statement. OK your statement wasn't outrageous, maybe just a typo.

edit. Thinking my interpretation of the word may have been different to yours and having not wanted to offend I looked it up
www.thefreedictionary.com/outrageous

I was thinking of the 4th usage. It's my upbringing, Mum often accused me of making outrageous statements.

I owned a RTV ute for a couple of years - great vehicle to drive and for pulling the boat out at the ramp. No good on wet slippery grass or greasy clay on a slight incline unfortunately.

The prob with suspension mods (when not done properly) will throw out the balance of the vehicle, especially on corners. Many 4wd'ers have come to grief on corners due to poorly installed suspension 'lift' kits that haven't been designed to balance across the axles. They simply roll over if the corner is taken too fast and they have a load on the roof!

I was looking at RTVs for a bit once, get a good one on gas. Back in the day 2wd was all most people had to criss cross Australia. Just had to drive smarter.

I like what you've done to your subi, it's a great project. But saying a suped up AWD subi will beat any proper 4x4 is a fallacy.
Weight is an advantage in some terrain, especially sand. Match big diameter tyres aired down, with a heavy, decent horsepower forby, that's unbeatable.
Also there's 1 million advantages to lifting your fourby! Even bog stock 'cruisers and patrols need lifting if you want to go anywhere challenging.
Sorry to rain on your parade but it's the truth.

Agree spoktek, although I must point out there are so many places a 'proper 4wd' just isnt needed and the subi AWD system gives a lot of traction in a lot of conditions.

^^ for sure, I had a libo and it got a flogging, Sand track racing was sick in the subi. I reckon flogging ol mates suped up forrester would put a smile on anyone's dial! But as far as capibilities go, ya can't beat 4.2 litres of turbo diesel.

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Ian K said..
I was looking at RTVs for a bit once, get a good one on gas. Back in the day 2wd was all most people had to criss cross Australia. Just had to drive smarter.

The ED vid is impressive. With a bit of recovery gear in the boot you can go most anywhere. I would love to see an RTV put through it's paces.

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cisco said..

Ian K said..
I was looking at RTVs for a bit once, get a good one on gas. Back in the day 2wd was all most people had to criss cross Australia. Just had to drive smarter.

The ED vid is impressive. With a bit of recovery gear in the boot you can go most anywhere. I would love to see an RTV put through it's paces.

Yes I was surprised I couldn't find one on youtube. My brother inlaw claims to have given Fprd the idea for the RTV. He runs a regional dealership and there was to be a demonstration off road 4wd course at the local show ground. Must have been a shortage of 4Wds available to fly his company flag so he got his mechanic to weld up the diff and remove the stabiliser bars from a Falcon ute. Went very well apparently. It wasn't a course involving an inclined wet lawn I suppose. Don't think the RTVs went as far as disconnectable stabilisers, you get them on Range Rovers though according to last night's Top Gear.

Vague recollection........

In one of the early Australasian Safari's, a pretty much bog standard Falcon ute embarrassed an awful lot of specially built off road racers and 4wd's.

Also - if you can find a copy, have a read of "Popski's Private Army" - a WW2 mob much like the SAS at the time.
As a pre WW2 hobby, the bloke who ran "PPA" would navigate across the various Arab deserts - in a Model A Ford. [the maps back then were just blank sheets of paper]
When his unit were issued 4wd vehicles he noted that driver standards dropped!

We are pretty spoilt these days with our choice of transport.......

[must admit I like your subi too ]

stephen

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Spocktek said..
I like what you've done to your subi, it's a great project. But saying a suped up AWD subi will beat any proper 4x4 is a fallacy.

Please don't put words in my mouth guys.

In the first post I said my subi can drive rings around proper 4x4's on the sand.

Of course this is a subjective statement and can't be proven but I'm happy to continue the research

Im happy to help prove it, the patrol lugging up the beach, the subi 4 wheel drifting around it, Ken Block eat your heart out.

Hell, depending on your driving skill I might even let you drive your subi

I believe you. Subis are great in sand. The only trouble is on sandy tracks where the wheel ruts are deep. Years ago when 2WD dominated each vehicle would rake a little sand from the crown back into the ruts. Now the odd subi has to do all the work or get stuck. Proper 4WDs have created their own environment to a fair degree. Maybe we should have an arms reduction treaty to get tracks back to the way they were.

Agree Ian, Im no fan of the follow the wheel rut type driving. Boring

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sn said..
Vague recollection........

In one of the early Australasian Safari's, a pretty much bog standard Falcon ute embarrassed an awful lot of specially built off road racers and 4wd's.

Also - if you can find a copy, have a read of "Popski's Private Army" - a WW2 mob much like the SAS at the time.
As a pre WW2 hobby, the bloke who ran "PPA" would navigate across the various Arab deserts - in a Model A Ford. [the maps back then were just blank sheets of paper]
When his unit were issued 4wd vehicles he noted that driver standards dropped!

We are pretty spoilt these days with our choice of transport.......

[must admit I like your subi too ]

stephen

I think that was discussed here before, but I think it was that the 2 wheel drive cars had narrow wheels and sunk down to firm ground and got traction.

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sotired said..

sn said..
Vague recollection........

In one of the early Australasian Safari's, a pretty much bog standard Falcon ute embarrassed an awful lot of specially built off road racers and 4wd's.

Also - if you can find a copy, have a read of "Popski's Private Army" - a WW2 mob much like the SAS at the time.
As a pre WW2 hobby, the bloke who ran "PPA" would navigate across the various Arab deserts - in a Model A Ford. [the maps back then were just blank sheets of paper]
When his unit were issued 4wd vehicles he noted that driver standards dropped!

We are pretty spoilt these days with our choice of transport.......

[must admit I like your subi too ]

stephen

I think that was discussed here before, but I think it was that the 2 wheel drive cars had narrow wheels and sunk down to firm ground and got traction.

Like this ?

That's it. I'll bookmark it for the next 4WD thread. It must have had the diff locked? Surely?

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Cal said..
Agree Ian, Im no fan of the follow the wheel rut type driving. Boring

No wasn't suggesting you make a new track. Think green. If the ruts are too bad get out and walk.