WA, double brick.
Gutters overflowed and water was running down the windows and dripping out of the nail holes..
Fixed the gutter blockage but... How the F**K do I get the Hardieflex eave lining out? (Do I even need too?)

I took out the nails holding it in place, its loose everywhere I push it up wards, but I cant budge it sideways
I figured it would slide laterally towards the house to come out of the lower gutter fascia, but nah.

Its been wet enough* that mould has been growing on it (blasted off with gernie today)

*Found out that the downpipe had been cut wrong and been blocking...

Gotta be a Tradie out there somewhere that knows this..

Usually slides into slot of fascia first. Then nailed up to truss; then timber mould is nailed into corners against wall and around any posts. So reverse those steps. It only ever comes out easy when you don't want it to! If your house has been rendered it may have been set in!

You're right, it should slide back from the fascia once all the nails are out, especially if you can push it upwards.
It may be the window frames, there's usually a lip on the top. If you lift it up at the windows, can you see over the lip?
If not you may have to get into the roof space and remove the framing holding it down

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decrepit said..
You're right, it should slide back from the fascia once all the nails are out, especially if you can push it upwards.
It may be the window frames, there's usually a lip on the top. If you lift it up at the windows, can you see over the lip?
If not you may have to get into the roof space and remove the framing holding it down

If put in properly it wont
i always Use a method called sprogging, this is prior to roof sheeting being fitted, an offcut is nailed from side of truss onto top of sheet , I also used to knock a masonry nail through sheet into mortar joint on top course of brickwork, I also used to run on certain jobs a 70 /35 along the eave lining on top and then sprogg that down, all in trying to stop eaves popping out of fascia, it's cheap as chips, just smash it out
on a side note do your downpipes run through eaves,
if so this is a dickhead design, as gutters have a higher front than rear, hence it'll overflow onto eaves then run onto eave into cavity, in a big downpour it'll flood cavity and house, bizarre this is still standard practice,

Diagrams show methods, also likely that it's swollen and will be tight as a nut on super cover strips, putting a popper here and there will assist in big rain events, you should have 1 downspout per 50/60 m2 of roof area for it to cope

See... this why I love Seabreeze
Thanks guys.

It looks to be rendered after fitting but its loose everywhere vertically by a few mm.
I can push it up away from the window, just not laterally at all in any direction.
There's nothing to get any real purchase to push it (tempted to drill a 10mm hole or 2 to get some grip... al least it will drain out of there when it floods...

The downpipes in this case are straight down from the gutter.

As for dickhead design, I did the neighbours gutter as well (grass growing in them) and there was no fall at all along the gutter, 10-15mm would pool along the whole length.

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cauncy said..

decrepit said..
You're right, it should slide back from the fascia once all the nails are out, especially if you can push it upwards.
It may be the window frames, there's usually a lip on the top. If you lift it up at the windows, can you see over the lip?
If not you may have to get into the roof space and remove the framing holding it down

If put in properly it wont
i always Use a method called sprogging, this is prior to roof sheeting being fitted, an offcut is nailed from side of truss onto top of sheet , I also used to knock a masonry nail through sheet into mortar joint on top course of brickwork, I also used to run on certain jobs a 70 /35 along the eave lining on top and then sprogg that down, all in trying to stop eaves popping out of fascia, it's cheap as chips, just smash it out
on a side note do your downpipes run through eaves,
if so this is a dickhead design, as gutters have a higher front than rear, hence it'll overflow onto eaves then run onto eave into cavity, in a big downpour it'll flood cavity and house, bizarre this is still standard practice,

Bizarre, nah, business as usual in WA.

Least it's not asbestos!

Gutters that overflow back into your eaves and wall cavity shouldn't be allowed. Why the heck are there still designs available that do that?

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Harrow said..
Gutters that overflow back into your eaves and wall cavity shouldn't be allowed. Why the heck are there still designs available that do that?

Building code (Nationals Construction Code) was changed a few years ago to address this with gutters, but it is not being enforced from my knowledge.

Regarding hardiflex, when it is put in on long runs, the plastic strips usually have little or no play (perpendicular to live of fascia).

As well as popping the nails you will need to carefully cut the plastic H strip on at least one (if not both ends) to get it out.

When you replace the sheet you will need to glue a H strip (with the backs cut off) in place over the top of the join.

Clarence

Be careful if your house is pre 80's could be asbestos.
Anyone involved in housing knows nothing is perfect especially so with project builders and a gutter instead of being level will have some degree of fall and should have a down pipe or 2 at its lowest point/s but have to go where the plan says.
And downpipes are like powerpoints, taps etc project builders will put the min in they can get away with to code.

Instead of drilling hole put an eave vent, this will allow it dry properly, sounds like you've not enough downpipes to cope with flow, either add more/ increase size which means more flow or hopper heads, as for falls to gutter, this can only be done on flat or timber fascia as the fascia recess is set for gutter and eaves which have to run level back to top of brick and window head



Clever design above

There isn't a gutter on the market that complied with the Australian Standard so overflow like this is common in heavy rain.
I've altered heaps of them once a problem has been found.

Not asbestos, built in 2005.
(That said, the children's hospital was built in 2015 www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-14/asbestos-found-in-perth-childrens-hospital-roof-panels/7628108)
Still... any unidentified fibreboard should be treated as containing asbestos. Crystalline Silica will f**k you up just like asbestos will.



I think I'll have a another crack at the panel, mainly to see if water could have gone down into the cavity.
Installing a vent or two vent is next.



Thanks everyone

Once the gutter issue is fixed & you clean out the gutters every couple of months it wont happen again right??
Leave the eave lining alone, open up the roof...remove the odd roof sheet or an area of tiles if you want it to dry out quicker, otherwise it will dry naturally anyway if the eave area is connected to the roof space, which it probably does.
That's why eave sheets are made from fibre cement so they can get wet occasionally without damage.
Just keep the gutters clear.

What area are you in rod? Happy to pop past and offer some advice if you still need it and are NOR?

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cauncy said.. i always Use a method called sprogging, .........................this is still standard practice,

yeah me too.

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Unhook3d said..
What area are you in rod? Happy to pop past and offer some advice if you still need it and are NOR?

SOR.
Fitted gutter mesh yesterday.

Gutters have been cleaned before... we dont have any trees.
Neighbor has one that dumped a few leaves in... removed less than half a 9l bucket of stuff for a 22m run.

The main issue is the ****e job done on the downpipe bends.
Ill get a pic tomorrow.

It sounds to me like your gutters were installed like shown in Fig. 3, the top of the inside wall of the gutter, being even or very close to the top of the fascia. Even with the proper flashing, that's a problem waiting to happen, the water can go behind the flashing and still drain into the eave. Fig. 1 shows a much better installation of the gutters, even if over flowing, the water can't get over the top of the fascia, and into the eave, even with or w/o flashing. This is how it's done here in the U.S.
If this applies to your issue, a positive fix so that it never happens again, is to lower your gutters, I know, a pain in the ass, but you are currently experiencing that right now. Gutter guys could to that fairly quickly, and fix the downpipes ("down spouts" as we call them) at the same time.
Just vent your eaves, no need to replace eave linings if not damaged.

I build houses for a living.

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Mastbender said..
It sounds to me like your gutters were installed like shown in Fig. 3, the top of the inside wall of the gutter, being even or very close to the top of the fascia. Even with the proper flashing, that's a problem waiting to happen, the water can go behind the flashing and still drain into the eave. Fig. 1 shows a much better installation of the gutters, even if over flowing, the water can't get over the top of the fascia, and into the eave, even with or w/o flashing. This is how it's done here in the U.S.
If this applies to your issue, a positive fix so that it never happens again, is to lower your gutters, I know, a pain in the ass, but you are currently experiencing that right now. Gutter guys could to that fairly quickly, and fix the downpipes ("down spouts" as we call them) at the same time.
Just vent your eaves, no need to replace eave linings if not damaged.

I build houses for a living.

You can only do that here with a flat timber fascia and a clip system gutter or coming up with some diy solution on flat steel and steel gutter
95% of housing is this system with pre set gutter slot in it
this Carnt be put up out of level or with fall as eaves have to run back level from seen slot in rear

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cauncy said..
>>>>>
this Carnt be put up out of level or with fall as eaves have to run back level from seen slot in rear

The only reason I can see, for the eaves to be level, is for ease of doing corners.
Would it take very much fall to stop water draining back into the cavity? depends how sealed, the sheeting is into the facia I guess.

Having fall would just mean having to do some sort of miter at the corners, shouldn't be too hard for a good chippy. Or am I missing something?

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decrepit said..

cauncy said..
>>>>>
this Carnt be put up out of level or with fall as eaves have to run back level from seen slot in rear

The only reason I can see, for the eaves to be level, is for ease of doing corners.
Would it take very much fall to stop water draining back into the cavity? depends how sealed, the sheeting is into the facia I guess.

Having fall would just mean having to do some sort of miter at the corners, shouldn't be too hard for a good chippy. Or am I missing something?

Your missing a lot, and talking to a chippy/ builder

There is a new system on the market with plastic guttering inside a shell that stops leaves from getting in.
It covers the fascia completely as well.
And can have heaps of fall .
On most of the new house's being built they are going for the 90mm pvc pipe doing away with the 100 x50 with cut & folded cnrs now.
You will find the storm water in the ground is 90mm so its easy to replace the down pipes with this & you can now also get coloured 90mm pipe so you dont have to paint .

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cauncy said..

Your missing a lot, and talking to a chippy/ builder

So, please elaborate.

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decrepit said..

cauncy said..

Your missing a lot, and talking to a chippy/ builder

So, please elaborate.

The fascia (and in turn the gutter as it sits on the fascia) is set up level the whole way around the house. I've never seen standard domestic fascia and gutter installed with fall.
Level is sufficient to allow the water to drain away and any left in a few low spots evaporated.

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Unhook3d said..
The fascia (and in turn the gutter as it sits on the fascia) is set up level the whole way around the house. I've never seen standard domestic fascia and gutter installed with fall.
Level is sufficient to allow the water to drain away and any left in a few low spots evaporated.

That's not what I'm saying, I'm talking a bout a fall between the brickwork and the facia, so the any water that gets into the eaves doesn't run down the cavity. As I said, there's no reason I can see apart from making it harder to do the corners. But I haven't done any roofing since the late 70s, and the old brain can easily miss things.

I have a very vague memory of doing this somewhere, but it may have just been a thought experiment.

Righto
internal walls are generally at 2.4 high
the external is set 3 courses down
trusses or tradition cut are birdsmouthed and pitch from internal wall with rafters overhanging
boxed eaves are levelled out
to plum cut rafter
our fascia is set at 35 or45 mm above depending on roof batten thickness
this is so our chosen roof material planes through with the fascia
dropping the fascia would leave an unsightly gap between roof and fascia
lifting would create a curl in the material and both a twist up and down in the eave as your coming off a level outer course of brickwork
There is no way you can run the type of fascia we use with a boxed eave out of level without it looking shidthouse in appearance
You can use a timber fascia
and run a pvc clip system with slight fall , if you set a large fall you'll have a visually poor result showing a tapered gap between roof material and gutterline

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rod_bunny said..
WA, double brick.
Gutters overflowed and water was running down the windows and dripping out of the nail holes..
Fixed the gutter blockage but... How the F**K do I get the Hardieflex eave lining out? (Do I even need too?)

I took out the nails holding it in place, its loose everywhere I push it up wards, but I cant budge it sideways
I figured it would slide laterally towards the house to come out of the lower gutter fascia, but nah.

Its been wet enough* that mould has been growing on it (blasted off with gernie today)

*Found out that the downpipe had been cut wrong and been blocking...

Gotta be a Tradie out there somewhere that knows this..

It won't budge as the lining will be hard up against the window fin, also straps which are attatched to fin and wrapped over a brick course( this stops window head sagging) will make it difficult to push up, easiest way is to pop the fascia, this exsposes the edge of eave lining which is into fascia slot, it'll slide out then when nails from sheet are removed, be warned it's a 2 man job locating eave lining and clipping fascia back in to original position

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cauncy said..
>>>>>
this is so our chosen roof material planes through with the fascia
dropping the fascia would leave an unsightly gap between roof and fascia
lifting would create a curl in the material and both a twist up and down in the eave as your coming off a level outer course of >>>>

Thanks mate, I wasn't thinking of the roof material.

Woops I've been thinking, dangerous I know, but nevertheless I have another question.

What's wrong with extending the roof a bit, or having a higher external course?
That way, the bottom of the fascia could be lower than the external course, and the roofing material would still line up with the top of the fascia.

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decrepit said..

cauncy said..
>>>>>
this is so our chosen roof material planes through with the fascia
dropping the fascia would leave an unsightly gap between roof and fascia
lifting would create a curl in the material and both a twist up and down in the eave as your coming off a level outer course of >>>>

Thanks mate, I wasn't thinking of the roof material.

Woops I've been thinking, dangerous I know, but nevertheless I have another question.

What's wrong with extending the roof a bit, or having a higher external course?
That way, the bottom of the fascia could be lower than the external course, and the roofing material would still line up with the top of the fascia.

You can make the eave out of level, you just plum cut rafter lower down, it's just not our practice to do such and would be picked on by builder/ supervisor / client
you can do what we call a raked eave which runs on the underside of a trimmed rafter and external brick course is higher
also an exsposed where we run eave lining on top of an arrised cottage rafter, this has no fascia and we cut a gutter check out of rafter tails
I've built in 6 different regions worldwide and each has different practices most to obtain a look for historical
reasons, Australia is the easiest yet not the smartest system I've come across, for instance if this system was in place in the uk you'd have big maintenance issues

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cauncy said..

decrepit said..

cauncy said..
>>>>>
this is so our chosen roof material planes through with the fascia
dropping the fascia would leave an unsightly gap between roof and fascia
lifting would create a curl in the material and both a twist up and down in the eave as your coming off a level outer course of >>>>

Thanks mate, I wasn't thinking of the roof material.

Woops I've been thinking, dangerous I know, but nevertheless I have another question.

What's wrong with extending the roof a bit, or having a higher external course?
That way, the bottom of the fascia could be lower than the external course, and the roofing material would still line up with the top of the fascia.

You can make the eave out of level, you just plum cut rafter lower down, it's just not our practice to do such and would be picked on by builder/ supervisor / client
you can do what we call a raked eave which runs on the underside of a trimmed rafter and external brick course is higher
also an exsposed where we run eave lining on top of an arrised cottage rafter, this has no fascia and we cut a gutter check out of rafter tails
I've built in 6 different regions worldwide and each has different practices most to obtain a look for historical
reasons, Australia is the easiest yet not the smartest system I've come across, for instance if this system was in place in the uk you'd have big maintenance issues

Yep, that's what I thought, there's better ways of doing it, but not as easy, so costs more.
And people have come to accept it as standard, then wonder why they have internal floods when the gutter blocks.

Its cheaper, easier and quicker to do the window details as in rb's figure 3.
The roofer sets the fascia (for a hip roof) at a height where the eave lining (fibre cement sheet) from the rebate in the fascia is at the same height as the top of the window frame.
That way there is no need for a steel lintel above all the windows for the brick work, or no need to clad above the windows, you could set the windows higher in the room, but that would look weird from the inside and outside & not allow any room for a bearer above the window to take the roof load.