Ive been thinking about the media reports of people in cars/4wd's being washed off flood ways to their death and with that in mind I wonder what might give people a better heads up on the dangers of crossing flooded roads ??

Typically the roads subject to flooding have depth gauges to say how deep the water is - but for the creek or river not how much energy is involved for a given depth of water - so depth gauges are actually very misleading ?? And Most people have really good reasons to attempt to get to the other side (without paying the ferryman!!)

Surely the actual depth is really not all that important unless you have a snorkel ?? Its the combination of depth and speed that is the issue as far as safety is concerned ? Fast flowing water at a shallower depth is much worse than slow flowing at a deeper depth.

Here's an idea the comes from the ski resorts that use the green/ blue/ black / double black ratings for ski runs !! - the depth gauges are actually rated as safe (green as the bottom of the depth gauge - max 10 cm ??) and then caution (yellow) and then Red (dangerous) The down sides of this system is trying to calibrate the Green/ Yellow/Red depths on the gauge for all creek and river systems - but why not colour code all depth gauges as an improvement over the current system??

If you came across a flooded crossing and could see the green part of the depth gauge then you know is OK - see the only the dangerous red part of the gauge sticking out of the flood water - what would you do ?? decision made!!

So if you could see the green bit - its Ok - yellow bit then 4WD's are ok and trucks - and if the water level increases to only having the red bit visible - then its down right dangerous to attempt crossing !!

How easy would this be for drivers to make decisions about getting home or turning back to stay with friends for the night??

I'm sure I'm over complicating a flooded river crossing but the message that is being put out there by the well meaning authorities - that we SHOULD NEVER CROSS a flooded road just wont work given the way humans think - BUT - redesign the flood markers to reflect the danger level may have an impact

End of rant !!

It's an interesting idea but you're trying to protect people from their own stupidity and that's impossible.

What's a safe depth? maybe 100mm for a family sedan, maybe 800mm for a reasonable 4WD without mods and a competent driver. 400mm in a family sedan with fast flowing water could be enough to wash it away.

Good point Chris - but water depth is completely subjective - traffic lights aren't !!
Green - good to go
yellow - well think about your cars capability??
Red - don't expect to be saved when the **** hits the fan !!

I simply hate the nanny state approach and that is one that seems to be the norm now ...........

But sensible information provided in a simply way ??

How about a sign saying ,"Vehicles towing a boat are permitted to cross bridge at all times"

Where's the road gone ? If you have the balls follow a experienced truck driver! If not Toyota/Nissan recovery vehicle.
If your traveling In remote areas Just make sure to place a sticker on your back window and the scaff crew will be there shortly. ;-)

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Elroy Jetson said..
How about a sign saying ,"Vehicles towing a boat are permitted to cross bridge at all times"

But its still a 100 km/hr speed limit - book him for holding up the traffic!!

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Lambie said..
Good point Chris - but water depth is completely subjective - traffic lights aren't !!
Green - good to go
yellow - well think about your cars capability??
Red - don't expect to be saved when the **** hits the fan !!

I simply hate the nanny state approach and that is one that seems to be the norm now ...........

But sensible information provided in a simply way ??

What could be simpler than being told how deep the water is? then let Darwin figure the rest out.

This bloke bought a Jeep so he's good to go.

'nuff said.........



warning - there are a couple of naughty words





stephen

Buy a 4WD to go anywhere ! That is the sales pitch, and some people actually believed it.

Many 4WD magazines show us how to drive in water. But I believe they are talking about driving in STILL water, like a mud puddle. Venturing into a flowing creek is a totally different matter. Flowing water has lots of energy, especially the fast flowing ones. The trouble is how do you tell how fast the water is flowing ? I suppose you can jump in and see for yourself how fast you get swept downstream ?

I am led to believe that if water rises at or above the car door, you need to check your insurances, both car's and your life's. In flowing water, even slow one, it is likely to also carried debries and tree branches. These floating materials will soon get caught on the side of your car, and accumulate rapidly. It acts as a dam. Imagine the forces acting on the car !

If it is too risky, stay home and check up on the Seabreeze. You would be surprised how many nutbags are only too keen to show how clever they are !

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Jupiter said..
The trouble is how do you tell how fast the water is flowing ? I suppose you can jump in and see for yourself how fast you get swept downstream ?

Dont be silly, thats what significant others, co-drivers and apprentices are for


stephen

if u dont want to walk it dont drive it, SIMPLE!!!

I suppose if you are in a car by yourself and there is no one around that may risk their life to save you when you find yourself out of your depth when you try to cross a flooded road, then by all means go right ahead. The rest of the species will appreciate your removal from the gene pool. But I don't think it's right that you should risk the lives of others in the car (like kids) or expect someone to save you when you find out just how stupid you've been.

I think you would be shocked as to how little water depth it would take? and also you have to consider the surface too? if its a concrete crossing there slippery as hell so a bit of water and no traction and your gone real quick!

This one is a win. Gutsy...

Gutsy or dumb? Bit of both?

The Pentecost River on the Gibb is the longest water crossing I have done. I was quite happy to turn the car and van around and drive the four days and 550km or so back out if I wasn't sure we could do it. There had been 220mm of rain in 24hrs a week earlier and the water was pretty high. I waited a hour and a half before I saw someone with a similar set up as us do it.

The Reynolds River crossing in Lichtfield was the deepest, but not flowing much and had a sandy bottom with some corners around trees. I saw some muppet with a huge, dual axle can go through and cave in the side of his van when he dragged it across a tree, then smashed the bottom when he bottomed out on a stump on the exit. There were several signs either way that said no vans. For the sake of saving two hours it cost him thousands to come up from Daly River.

The Bungle Bungles has some deep crossings depending or rain.

When I lived in the desert I refused to cross creek lines in flood because of the clay base that provided zero traction. MT certainly would help then, but if I need them I don't want to there.

If it's flowing, don't go. If it's up to the top of your bumper, then things can start getting hairy and watch someone else first.

Don't walk rivers in the North of Australia. Big bities live there - thanks to the fella he told me I was bloody idiot when I was a quarter of the way across the Pentecost.

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sn said..

Jupiter said..
The trouble is how do you tell how fast the water is flowing ? I suppose you can jump in and see for yourself how fast you get swept downstream ?

Dont be silly, thats what significant others, co-drivers and apprentices are for stephen

I didn't think of that, sn. That is a bloody good idea. Would I be charged for attempted murder if things turns pear shape ?

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Jupiter said.. pear shape ?

well.......I suppose it depends on what the [any?] witnessess see and say, and if you think the result is worth it


stephen

Until there's a body it's just a missing person investigation right?

This thread is getting spooky Wolf Creek ? Ivan Milat ? Wow

I have a creek crossing that regularly go's over. I personally reach the end of comfort at 0.6m over with a heavy flow. I drive a standard 08 bt50. Any higher and I turn around!

The other day I did take it through some seriously deep water by accident. I didn't realise there was a huge hole, lucky that wasn't moving. Took weeks to dry out

Done plenty of crossings, but you gotta way up the risk verses reward. I personally think if you are going to do a crossing that is even a little risky with kids in the car you are a dead set ####wit!!

Elroy, I nearly threw up watching that idiot do that crossing with his son in the car. I can't believe a father would risk his own sons life like that..