Hi all,
I'm looking to upgrade my surf SUP. I'm currently on a Starboard Surf Deluxe inflatable 9'6"x32" that's actually not terrible at catching small stuff, but being inflatable it's a challenge to turn. Now that I actually have the storage space for hard boards I'm ready to work on my skills. I have an Infinity race board I love and a friend recommended their New Deal in 9x28 since I'm more interested in longboard style. It looks like a great board but they're also $$$. I found a Kalama that's around the same size and from looking around the posts here it looks like that's also a favorite. The price point seemed better too. Is it worth it to save a little longer for the Infinity? I'd take any other recommendations as well. My basic surfing is OK but definitely ready to do more with it. Thank you!
Select to expand quotepoppy1013 said..
Hi all,
I'm looking to upgrade my surf SUP. I'm currently on a Starboard Surf Deluxe inflatable 9'6"x32" that's actually not terrible at catching small stuff, but being inflatable it's a challenge to turn. Now that I actually have the storage space for hard boards I'm ready to work on my skills. I have an Infinity race board I love and a friend recommended their New Deal in 9x28 since I'm more interested in longboard style. It looks like a great board but they're also $$$. I found a Kalama that's around the same size and from looking around the posts here it looks like that's also a favorite. The price point seemed better too. Is it worth it to save a little longer for the Infinity? I'd take any other recommendations as well. My basic surfing is OK but definitely ready to do more with it. Thank you!
The New Deal is a brilliant board for surfing ..best surf sup I have used...but for its dims I don't find it a particularly stable shape. It's got a very rolled deck and the rails (for me anyway) sit slightly under the water. On a glassy day not a problem but on a choppy day it catches me off balance at times. On a wave...love it! Great construction and very light.
Slab..what size new deal? I had a 10x29,and also found it a bit unstable,and stiff to surf no matter how I finned it ..however it paddled brilliantly.
They are both great boards, have 9x28 ND and friend surfs 9x28 Kalama, can't go wrong
Select to expand quotejustaddwater said..
Slab..what size new deal? I had a 10x29,and also found it a bit unstable,and stiff to surf no matter how I finned it ..however it paddled brilliantly.
I have the 9,6 x 31... it turns, carves like a dream but it's twitchy even at that size in chop. I've never found it stiff but I don't use the stock fins. Large side Quobbas and a 7 inch single fin. It might have more curve in the tail than the 10 x29 so not as stiff? I'm 95 kg
I have a 9'2" Kalama and I absolutely love it! It will catch the tinniest ankle bitters and also feels super stable and locked in when the waves are overhead. It has definately made me a better surfer. My friends say that I am a lot smoother than I used to be. I have not actually surfed the New Deal but, someone I surf with (who has over 30 years of surfing experience) recently bought one and then sold it within 2 weeks. He said that it felt good when the waves were big but, it was sluggish and tippy when the waves were waist high or smaller. The volume on the New deal is pushed up front as apposed to the Kalama that has the volume more evenly spaced out.
Select to expand quoteSDOndas said..
I have a 9'2" Kalama and I absolutely love it! It will catch the tinniest ankle bitters and also feels super stable and locked in when the waves are overhead. It has definately made me a better surfer. My friends say that I am a lot smoother than I used to be. I have not actually surfed the New Deal but, someone I surf with (who has over 30 years of surfing experience) recently bought one and then sold it within 2 weeks. He said that it felt good when the waves were big but, it was sluggish and tippy when the waves were waist high or smaller. The volume on the New deal is pushed up front as apposed to the Kalama that has the volume more evenly spaced out.
Totally agree in that it can handle bigger surf..it feels totally locked in. 95% of my surfing is in waist to chest high waves.I love it for that.great on the nose. Glad I'm not the only one who finds it tippy.
Select to expand quoteSlab said..justaddwater said..
Slab..what size new deal? I had a 10x29,and also found it a bit unstable,and stiff to surf no matter how I finned it ..however it paddled brilliantly.
I have the 9,6 x 31... it turns, carves like a dream but it's twitchy even at that size in chop. I've never found it stiff but I don't use the stock fins. Large side Quobbas and a 7 inch single fin. It might have more curve in the tail than the 10 x29 so not as stiff? I'm 95 kg
I have a 9'6 to and it is up there with the top boards on the wave that I have had but I don't find it paddles well. It is as advertised 'highly tuned' so sweet spot is small. Great on a wave just not the best for paddling around
Thank you all so much, this has been really helpful. I'm more of a longboard-style small to medium wave gal so the stability in smaller stuff is important to me. I was debating if the 28" might be too narrow for me but I'm about 58kg (if I did the conversion right, hi from the US ;) ) so the higher volume stuff gets tough to turn.
Select to expand quoteToneJ said..Slab said..justaddwater said..
Slab..what size new deal? I had a 10x29,and also found it a bit unstable,and stiff to surf no matter how I finned it ..however it paddled brilliantly.
I have the 9,6 x 31... it turns, carves like a dream but it's twitchy even at that size in chop. I've never found it stiff but I don't use the stock fins. Large side Quobbas and a 7 inch single fin. It might have more curve in the tail than the 10 x29 so not as stiff? I'm 95 kg
I have a 9'6 to and it is up there with the top boards on the wave that I have had but I don't find it paddles well. It is as advertised 'highly tuned' so sweet spot is small. Great on a wave just not the best for paddling around
Tone j this,is what is fascinating,I'm in my seventies 76 kg stuffed shoulders,so paddling is a priority for me.I have had just about every 10 longboard sup so far,and the NDeal was the best paddling so far for me ,but I suspect the new starboard with its flatter rocker could be good as well,back to my point ,maybe the extra 6 " in length and 2" narrower makes the difference?,I definitely take your point ,as I'm considering the 9x31 NDeal,I will try and paddle one before i commit.
poppy,
I had a 10'x27" New Deal that I had to sell when I lost a place to store 10' boards and I currently have a 9'x28" Kalama. They are both very good boards, light, strong and with good flex, but they are very different shapes.
The New deal is a continuous rocker that runs pretty straight off the tail. The Kalama is a staged rocker with a lot of lift in the tail. As somebody pointed out the ND carries its volume more forward, the Kalama is thinned out a lot in the nose. I haven't surfed the 9'x28" ND, but if I had to extrapolate from the 10'x27" I would guess it is pretty fast down the line and will have good grip when you go to the nose. I don't see why it wouldn't work well in small/medium waves but I would guess to get the most out of it you will need to move around a bit. I think it might turn a little better from further forward than the Kalama as the vee runs up a ways. I would bet it is less stable than the Kalama.
The Kalama is a single concave running to a flat out the tail. This makes it very stable for a 28" wide board. I also find it to paddle really well. Crazy well in fact especially for the amount of tail rocker. I bow to those with more longboard experience than I on this forum, but I am pretty sure it will paddle faster out the back than the same size ND. It turns really well off the tail block but it can feel a little sticky from mid board if you over fin it in the small stuff. It also has good grip and great rails in the nose for nose riding. The tail rocker makes it easy to manage for a longboard in steeper beach breaks.
If you have the cash I would also take a look at the new starboard longboard. I am 6'2" and I found surfing a 9' didn't quite feel long enough to really give me the longboard feel, so when Starboard came out last fall with a 9'5" which I could just barely stuff diagonally in my shed, I picked one up. They are brilliant boards, again very different than the Kalama and the ND, but that's another post.
Select to expand quotejustaddwater said..ToneJ said..Slab said..justaddwater said..
Slab..what size new deal? I had a 10x29,and also found it a bit unstable,and stiff to surf no matter how I finned it ..however it paddled brilliantly.
I have the 9,6 x 31... it turns, carves like a dream but it's twitchy even at that size in chop. I've never found it stiff but I don't use the stock fins. Large side Quobbas and a 7 inch single fin. It might have more curve in the tail than the 10 x29 so not as stiff? I'm 95 kg
I have a 9'6 to and it is up there with the top boards on the wave that I have had but I don't find it paddles well. It is as advertised 'highly tuned' so sweet spot is small. Great on a wave just not the best for paddling around
Tone j this,is what is fascinating,I'm in my seventies 76 kg stuffed shoulders,so paddling is a priority for me.I have had just about every 10 longboard sup so far,and the NDeal was the best paddling so far for me ,but I suspect the new starboard with its flatter rocker could be good as well,back to my point ,maybe the extra 6 " in length and 2" narrower makes the difference?,I definitely take your point ,as I'm considering the 9x31 NDeal,I will try and paddle one before i commit.
Yeah everything is so personal. The ND is a fantastic board but I just find it finely balanced. This is what probably makes it so good on the wave but not as fast paddling for me. I expected it to paddle faster than my Sunova flow but it doesn't in my experience. There are compromises in everything. where I surf there is a mile paddle out so I tend to notice it but if you were on a normal beach break you probably wouldn't.
Select to expand quoteSurlygringo said..
poppy,
I had a 10'x27" New Deal that I had to sell when I lost a place to store 10' boards and I currently have a 9'x28" Kalama. They are both very good boards, light, strong and with good flex, but they are very different shapes.
The New deal is a continuous rocker that runs pretty straight off the tail. The Kalama is a staged rocker with a lot of lift in the tail. As somebody pointed out the ND carries its volume more forward, the Kalama is thinned out a lot in the nose. I haven't surfed the 9'x28" ND, but if I had to extrapolate from the 10'x27" I would guess it is pretty fast down the line and will have good grip when you go to the nose. I don't see why it wouldn't work well in small/medium waves but I would guess to get the most out of it you will need to move around a bit. I think it might turn a little better from further forward than the Kalama as the vee runs up a ways. I would bet it is less stable than the Kalama.
The Kalama is a single concave running to a flat out the tail. This makes it very stable for a 28" wide board. I also find it to paddle really well. Crazy well in fact especially for the amount of tail rocker. I bow to those with more longboard experience than I on this forum, but I am pretty sure it will paddle faster out the back than the same size ND. It turns really well off the tail block but it can feel a little sticky from mid board if you over fin it in the small stuff. It also has good grip and great rails in the nose for nose riding. The tail rocker makes it easy to manage for a longboard in steeper beach breaks.
If you have the cash I would also take a look at the new starboard longboard. I am 6'2" and I found surfing a 9' didn't quite feel long enough to really give me the longboard feel, so when Starboard came out last fall with a 9'5" which I could just barely stuff diagonally in my shed, I picked one up. They are brilliant boards, again very different than the Kalama and the ND, but that's another post.
I would expect the SB 9'5" to be much heavier than the ND... your thoughts?
Select to expand quotetheSeb said..Surlygringo said..
poppy,
I had a 10'x27" New Deal that I had to sell when I lost a place to store 10' boards and I currently have a 9'x28" Kalama. They are both very good boards, light, strong and with good flex, but they are very different shapes.
The New deal is a continuous rocker that runs pretty straight off the tail. The Kalama is a staged rocker with a lot of lift in the tail. As somebody pointed out the ND carries its volume more forward, the Kalama is thinned out a lot in the nose. I haven't surfed the 9'x28" ND, but if I had to extrapolate from the 10'x27" I would guess it is pretty fast down the line and will have good grip when you go to the nose. I don't see why it wouldn't work well in small/medium waves but I would guess to get the most out of it you will need to move around a bit. I think it might turn a little better from further forward than the Kalama as the vee runs up a ways. I would bet it is less stable than the Kalama.
The Kalama is a single concave running to a flat out the tail. This makes it very stable for a 28" wide board. I also find it to paddle really well. Crazy well in fact especially for the amount of tail rocker. I bow to those with more longboard experience than I on this forum, but I am pretty sure it will paddle faster out the back than the same size ND. It turns really well off the tail block but it can feel a little sticky from mid board if you over fin it in the small stuff. It also has good grip and great rails in the nose for nose riding. The tail rocker makes it easy to manage for a longboard in steeper beach breaks.
If you have the cash I would also take a look at the new starboard longboard. I am 6'2" and I found surfing a 9' didn't quite feel long enough to really give me the longboard feel, so when Starboard came out last fall with a 9'5" which I could just barely stuff diagonally in my shed, I picked one up. They are brilliant boards, again very different than the Kalama and the ND, but that's another post.
I would expect the SB 9'5" to be much heavier than the ND... your thoughts?
My ND 9,6 x 31 is 8.4 kg with two large sides and 7 inch centre fin. The SB 9,5 x 30 in carbon is 8.5 kg according to their website but I guess that is without fins and it is much lower in litres. So basically the SB carbon is built heavier but not by much.
Select to expand quoteSlab said..theSeb said..Surlygringo said..
poppy,
I had a 10'x27" New Deal that I had to sell when I lost a place to store 10' boards and I currently have a 9'x28" Kalama. They are both very good boards, light, strong and with good flex, but they are very different shapes.
The New deal is a continuous rocker that runs pretty straight off the tail. The Kalama is a staged rocker with a lot of lift in the tail. As somebody pointed out the ND carries its volume more forward, the Kalama is thinned out a lot in the nose. I haven't surfed the 9'x28" ND, but if I had to extrapolate from the 10'x27" I would guess it is pretty fast down the line and will have good grip when you go to the nose. I don't see why it wouldn't work well in small/medium waves but I would guess to get the most out of it you will need to move around a bit. I think it might turn a little better from further forward than the Kalama as the vee runs up a ways. I would bet it is less stable than the Kalama.
The Kalama is a single concave running to a flat out the tail. This makes it very stable for a 28" wide board. I also find it to paddle really well. Crazy well in fact especially for the amount of tail rocker. I bow to those with more longboard experience than I on this forum, but I am pretty sure it will paddle faster out the back than the same size ND. It turns really well off the tail block but it can feel a little sticky from mid board if you over fin it in the small stuff. It also has good grip and great rails in the nose for nose riding. The tail rocker makes it easy to manage for a longboard in steeper beach breaks.
If you have the cash I would also take a look at the new starboard longboard. I am 6'2" and I found surfing a 9' didn't quite feel long enough to really give me the longboard feel, so when Starboard came out last fall with a 9'5" which I could just barely stuff diagonally in my shed, I picked one up. They are brilliant boards, again very different than the Kalama and the ND, but that's another post.
I would expect the SB 9'5" to be much heavier than the ND... your thoughts?
My ND 9,6 x 31 is 8.4 kg with two large sides and 7 inch centre fin. The SB 9,5 x 30 in carbon is 8.5 kg according to their website but I guess that is without fins and it is much lower in litres. So basically the SB carbon is built heavier but not by much.
Thanks for the info. Much as I suspected.
I have heard there is some variation in the weight. My 9'5" weighs 8.2 with fins on a good scale
Just found the weight of my old 10'x27" New Deal in an old notebook. It was 8kg without fins on the same scale that I weighed the Starboard on. The 10'x27" was 122ltrs so perhaps a better comparison than a 9'6" ND.
Select to expand quoteSurlygringo said..
I have heard there is some variation in the weight. My 9'5" weighs 8.2 with fins on a good scale
That's a good weight..I would have considered one.looked at it quite carefully but just wanted a little more volume so getting a 9,5 x 31 custom Style Lord.
Surly..is correct !!! I'm one of the unfortunate ones that ordered the SB 9.5x30waited for months for arrival,put the board on the scales 9.1 kg without fins ,sales people in the biggest sup shop on the east coast of oz did not believe me ,until I took it back wow, they said that's ****** no problems with money back,but I was gutted as the board looks brilliant in every other way !..note that after that SB altered the web site from around 8 kg.to the current 8.5 kg.just beware .weigh the board first!!!..it would be great for the light weight carbon pvc build be carried over into the longboard range $$$,probs similar price to Infinity? Just saying.
Select to expand quoteSurlygringo said..
poppy,
I had a 10'x27" New Deal that I had to sell when I lost a place to store 10' boards and I currently have a 9'x28" Kalama. They are both very good boards, light, strong and with good flex, but they are very different shapes.
The New deal is a continuous rocker that runs pretty straight off the tail. The Kalama is a staged rocker with a lot of lift in the tail. As somebody pointed out the ND carries its volume more forward, the Kalama is thinned out a lot in the nose. I haven't surfed the 9'x28" ND, but if I had to extrapolate from the 10'x27" I would guess it is pretty fast down the line and will have good grip when you go to the nose. I don't see why it wouldn't work well in small/medium waves but I would guess to get the most out of it you will need to move around a bit. I think it might turn a little better from further forward than the Kalama as the vee runs up a ways. I would bet it is less stable than the Kalama.
The Kalama is a single concave running to a flat out the tail. This makes it very stable for a 28" wide board. I also find it to paddle really well. Crazy well in fact especially for the amount of tail rocker. I bow to those with more longboard experience than I on this forum, but I am pretty sure it will paddle faster out the back than the same size ND. It turns really well off the tail block but it can feel a little sticky from mid board if you over fin it in the small stuff. It also has good grip and great rails in the nose for nose riding. The tail rocker makes it easy to manage for a longboard in steeper beach breaks.
If you have the cash I would also take a look at the new starboard longboard. I am 6'2" and I found surfing a 9' didn't quite feel long enough to really give me the longboard feel, so when Starboard came out last fall with a 9'5" which I could just barely stuff diagonally in my shed, I picked one up. They are brilliant boards, again very different than the Kalama and the ND, but that's another post.
Thank you for all the detail! That really helps, honestly other than sizes I don't know much about board construction and helps me decide. Now actually order instead of spending another month playing the 'what about this one' game.
At 58k all these boards are too corky for you but probably fine for progressing if you don't mind throwing down the $$s. If you get into surfing more a thinner custom closer to 85 liters would be way better. Infinity can advise you directly either way if you talk to them.
I was thinking same thing, want less volume without having to go narrower. The new deal does sit low in water though, perhaps why it can feel tiny bit sluggish to get up to speed paddling. My wife at around 60kg actually gets the 9x28 rails fairly submerged and for me at ~83 kg, back half of board sunk, but still paddles fast and is stable compared to non-longboard shape.
Select to expand quoteKisutch said..
back half of board sunk
Note that having the back half of board sunk actually adds a bit of stability, dampening the board movements (but adds a bit of drag while paddling).
True but as in the case of my 9x26 new deal the tail and back half are pretty narrow which more than offsets any stability gain. I find the sweet spot big but that's in comparison to shorter boards, I never tried kalama or starboard longboards to compare. Super fun board, I've been using as a twin with no center much easier to deal with stacking boards and a little faster down the line. www.surfnvs.com/collections/apex-twins/products/kraken-twin-v2-apex I used these because they shift the twins back to a little better position
Lots of Kalama info here:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Kalama-Performance?page=1
I own the Kalama 9' x 28" / 106L and it is my go to now even on big days. I am 5' 10" / 170#'s.
SurlyGringo mentions:
"The tail rocker makes it easy to manage for a longboard in steeper beach breaks."
So true as the Kalama is so fun and fast in steep shore break waves.
I love the New Deal 10 x 29, it is lots of fun in small waves. I think most brands of boards are great it's just a matter of finding the one that suits you. Kalamas look great.
So I finally bought the Kalama, hoping it ships out soon! But my next question is how best to fin it? On my Starboard I just went with what it came with since my knowledge is pretty limited. I've got one longer FCS II fin but that's about it and I've seen other posts recommending quad setup?
I would just use what comes with the board..see how you like it. Then when you fancy a change try something different. It's entirely up to you how you fin it.
Congratulations on your new board! I like my 9'0" as a thruster with a slightly taller center fin. If you want to run it as a quad I would look for some cheap plastic trailers as I found it a little sticky with a large stiff quad set. To be fair I tried the quad set up in small waves, so in bigger more powerful surf it might be the ticket.
I have really enjoyed using Quobba fins in a quad setup. They don't sell them as a quad pack so you need to purchase them individually. If you have any questions, the folks at Quobba are very helpful. I am using a large left and large right up front and a medium left and a medium right in the back. There is something magical about the Kalama and a set of Quobbas. My previous board had a thruster setup so, it took about 10 sessions for me to adjust to a quad. I am so, glad I did! Dave Kalama put the rear two fin boxes closer to the middle of the board than most other boards. This creates a "McKee" set up where you have characteristics of both a quad and thruster at the same time. The Quobbas are a little pricy but, definitely worth it.
BTW, Surlygringo is right. In small waves, the quads will feel a little stiff and you definitely need to step further back for your turns. That said, once the waves are waist high or bigger, the quads create reall magic thats hard to describe.
